Layoffs aren’t personal—but they sure feel like it. Here’s how to process those big feelings without wallowing in them.
From the surprise notice, to the advance tipoff, to the not-even-one-year-in-your-role dissolution, layoffs take many forms. But hardly any of us give ourselves the space to grieve the loss before we throw ourselves back into the job search. This week, Sara and Jen discuss how to be kind to yourself after a layoff, build a sustainable action plan even in a tough job market, and avoid sinking into panic mode along the way.
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Jen Dionisio 0:00 Something I think happens a lot of times when people go through a firing or layoff is this sort of narrative that gets created about what's wrong with you? What you could have done, what you should have done. But that's not always actually what the true story is.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 0:37 Hey, Jen, how are you doing? You were at a conference this week, right?
Jen Dionisio 0:40 Yeah, I was doing my first in-person talk since the pandemic.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 0:45 Oh my gosh, I've done like two in-person or something. And it's a little weird to get back out in front of actual people, huh?
Jen Dionisio 0:51 Yeah. Like, what do you do with your hands when they're actually visible to everyone?
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 0:55 I don't know because my answer is I do too much with my hands.
Jen Dionisio 1:01 Oh, but, Sara, also, I had people come up and say that they have been listening to Per My Last Email.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 1:08 Really?
Jen Dionisio 1:08 Yes. They were loving it, especially the title. So shout out to you who came up with this brilliant title.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 1:17 Well, on that note, do you think we should do a podcast?
Jen Dionisio 1:21 Let's do it.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 1:22 All right. Well, as you know, this is Per My Last Email, the show about what to do when work gets weird. I'm Sara Wachter-Boettcher.
Jen Dionisio 1:29 And I'm Jen Dionisio. Sara, what's today's topic?
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 1:33 Today we've got a big one, especially for all of those designers and content folks that we know because I know you're going through it. We're talking about layoffs, and specifically how to cope and move on after you've been laid off.
Jen Dionisio 1:46 Yeah, it's been so heartbreaking to talk to all the really talented and dedicated people in the field who are in this situation and through absolutely no fault of their own.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 1:58 Yeah. You know, I was looking at the site https://layoffs.fyi/. And they were tracking more than 600 tech companies that had laid people off just in this year, and almost 200,000 people at those companies. Yeah, and I think I mean, I'm sure it'll be more by the time people hear this, because we are recording a little bit in advance.
Jen Dionisio 2:19 Yeah. Even though it's this big, widespread trend, it really feels so personal. I was reading this New York Times piece, and it said that 40% of Americans have been laid off or fired at some point in their life, and that it can actually take longer to get over that kind of job loss than getting over the death of a loved one.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 2:42 Wow.
Jen Dionisio 2:43 So listeners, I know it can feel really lonely. But you're definitely not alone.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 2:52 Yeah, and of course, that's part of the problem, too, because I know a lot of people are out there looking for jobs, and it feels like they are now competing against everybody which makes it even rougher. And I also think the people who haven't lost their jobs, maybe they are surviving a layoff or maybe it just hasn't hit their company at all, it can just be really hard on them, too. It's sort of like nobody comes out unscathed. But today, we really want to focus on those people who have been laid off. So are you ready to hear from our first listener?
Jen Dionisio 3:21 Yeah, let's play it.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 3:27 Okay , so this dilemma is from a UX researcher. We'll call her HB. Here's her story:
HB 3:33 I was just laid off this week. It came as a surprise, and I had no notice or time to prepare. I feel hurt and betrayed and also scared about finding my next role. I'm hearing on LinkedIn that with all the recent tech layoffs, it's taking candidates six months to find a job. I'm the primary income earner in my family and can't afford to be unemployed for too long. How can I grieve and heal from this layoff while also moving forward to find my next opportunity?
Jen Dionisio 4:02 Oh, HB. Sara, I'm guessing that HB stands for "hurt and betrayed"?
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 4:08 Hurt and betrayed. You got it.
Jen Dionisio 4:10 HB, I know that it is so hard when these layoffs happen with absolutely no warning. I mean, it's like one day you're living one life, and then the next day you have to live an entirely other one that you weren't prepared for. And I'm so sorry that this is how you're starting this phase of your life. You know, Sara, I heard someone describe uncertainty as like the original fear that all fears come from and you know, whenever we're making a big change, it's like, you can plan for months or years, and that fear can still be completely overwhelming. But with layoffs so often there's no time to prepare for what's to come. You know, you're safe and then suddenly, you're not.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 4:58 Yeah, I think that whiplash can make it really hard for people, can kind of like throw them into panic mode. And once you go through that, how do you get kind of like back to a more reasonable place that's going to be able to look for a new job? And I think maybe that's the question we want to get to here: How can HB process her feelings about these layoffs, but like, without getting stuck in her grief?
Jen Dionisio 5:21 You know, HB sounds like she's already taking one of the first steps I would recommend if she was my client, which is to really slow down and get familiar with these feelings that she's having. You know, she mentioned hurt and betrayal, which are two very specific and strong emotions that ladder up to some of our, like, most fundamental feelings, like sadness and anger. You know, a lot of times when people are struggling to pinpoint why they're feeling wrong or off, I'll often send them to look at a feelings wheel. And we can drop a link to one of those in the show notes.
But, you know, getting really specific about what you're feeling lets you start to understand why. What is the source of that hurt, HB? You know, maybe it's because of the way the layoff was conducted. Maybe it was promises made to you that you are now feeling like aren't being held up. You know, and what's the source of that betrayal? What are those things that you will need to understand and process to be able to move on?
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 6:29 You know I love a feelings wheel.
Jen Dionisio 6:33 Mm-hmm, me too.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 6:33 When I was reading this question from HB, it reminded me of this concept of institutional betrayal. Are you familiar with that?
Jen Dionisio 6:40 I am, but I would love for you to tell our listeners a little more about it.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 6:45 Yeah. Okay. So a psychologist named Jennifer Freyd came up with it. She coined it to describe what happens when an institution that you trust or depend on mistreats you. So her original sort of formulation of the theory was about colleges and their response to things like sexual assault. And she talks about things like how campus inaction, or worse, things like backlash or cover ups, which we've seen lots of that happening, that creates the system where there's both the trauma of the assault itself, and then a compounded added harm that comes along with the institution then failing you. So not only did you experience this really hard thing, but then you also feel betrayed by the institution that was supposed to help you, or maybe protect you.
And I think in this scenario, institutional betrayal might be a useful concept to look at because the layoff is the initial harm, right? Like, the layoff is this jarring experience, this painful, traumatic moment. And the way that the layoff is done can be where the institutional betrayal particularly happens, because layoffs are often enacted in ways that don't feel very equitable. The experience of being suddenly cut off, not being able to have any closure, not being able to say goodbye, not being able to grab things you worked on for your portfolio, which is just going to make it harder to get the next job, those things can really exacerbate what's already going to be a really rough experience.
And so if any of this is ringing bells for you, HB, I would suggest reading about institutional betrayal. Because I find that it can be really helpful in the healing process to just have a clear definition or name for these things. It can feel validating to know that what you are going through is actually, like, a documented traumatic experience that other people go through as well. It doesn't fix it, but I think as part of the healing process, like, really getting clear about what's happening here, and as you were saying, Jen, where the hurt is coming from and why that hurt is there is a huge step to then being able to heal from that hurt.
Jen Dionisio 8:57 Yeah, and not putting it all on yourself. Like, "I'm just reacting too strongly to this. I should be able to move on."
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 9:04 "Why do I still feel this way? It's been two weeks."
Jen Dionisio 9:08 Yeah, two weeks compared to your tenure.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 9:10 Right. So Jen, once HB has thought about their feelings a bit, named some of those feelings, then what? How would they start moving forward from there?
Jen Dionisio 9:21 Yeah. Well, we were starting to hit on this, which is getting clear on what stories might be floating around in your head that are helpful or harmful to moving forward. You know, something I think happens a lot of times when people go through a firing or layoff is this sort of narrative that gets created about what's wrong with you? What you could have done, what you should have done. But that's not always actually what the true story is.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 9:54 Especially in a layoff. I think usually in a layoff, like, there wasn't really anything you could do.
Jen Dionisio 9:59 Yeah. There are so many things that contribute. It can be, it's not you failing, the company might be failing. It's not you, it's the market that's crashing, you know? It's not that your skills aren't valuable. Maybe they just weren't the skills that were selling within your organization right now, or the project you're assigned to was no longer a priority. And none of those things are about you personally being bad or not good enough.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 10:27 And a lot of them aren't things you could necessarily have anticipated. Or even if you could have anticipated them, it doesn't mean you could have, like, done something differently to protect yourself from them. And I think oftentimes, that's where we get stuck is that spiral of "should have done this. I wish I'd done that, duh duh duh duh duh." And it can really send us down this path that's very much, like, ruminating on that past where we just beat ourselves up.
Jen Dionisio 10:51 Yeah. And so you know, HB, something I might practice is asking yourself how you feel about this layoff from the perspective of telling yourself that you got laid off because you were a failure, or instead, telling yourself that you got laid off, because of circumstances that were entirely out of your control. And when you start thinking about the layoff as not because of you and your personal shortcomings, and because of circumstances separate from you, how does that feeling of what you think you are and aren't capable of next feel a little different, and possibly a little more hopeful?
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 11:38 Yeah.
Jen Dionisio 11:39 And then, when you get to that point, you can start asking some new questions of yourself to come up with a different story about what this experience in your life means and represents. Like, when you were at this job, what were your strengths? What were your accomplishments? Like, what did you learn and how did you grow? What are these things that you have to bring to your next employer? Because when you start thinking about yourself in these more affirmative ways, it's going to help with what your confidence is as you step into that job market and try to find what's next.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 12:19 I really love this advice to replay some of the positive experiences you had in that job. You know, one of the things that I know is when we're going through an extreme negative experience, we can start to filter everything through a pretty negative lens. And it can be very helpful to rebalance yourself by also reminding yourself of positives, like you said, strengths, accomplishments, learnings, etc. Not to shut down the negative part, more as a counterweight so that it's not just the negative rattling around in your head, which is where I think so many people kind of get stuck,
Jen Dionisio 12:54 That negativity bias is a really natural occurrence. Like, we spend our time ruminating on the things that go wrong and not the things that go right. And to your point, Sara, that doesn't mean that you have to stay relentlessly positive.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 13:10 No, no you don't.
Jen Dionisio 13:11 Those feelings of hurt and betrayal, they're not going away. And you're allowed to take as much time as you need to process those feelings. You know, another thing I would recommend for HB is take a look at who's in your support system. Who are the people that can be listeners, or champions, or cheerleaders as you're processing some of these more difficult feelings? Because I think those senses of shame and embarrassment keep us from getting help in the times that we need it the most.
And I think HB, it sounds like you might be feeling pressure to move on from your grief as quickly as possible because I know that that worry about losing your financial stability is really important and really real. But I know you can move forward while still setting aside time to really process the negative feelings, too.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 14:10 You know, this brings up something that I am glad we're getting into which is that tension between fully processing this experience and actually moving forward. I've had clients tell me it took them a year or two to process a layoff, and I think that really affirms what you read in that New York Times article, like, it can take a long time. But it doesn't sound like HB can afford to wait that long. And so I think then the question is, how might HB work through their fear and still move forward while not fully healed, while still in that healing process?
Jen Dionisio 14:43 Yeah, you know, the market is really hard right now. And I don't want to minimize HB's fears about the industry. But again, this is stuff that's not in your control. So I do recommend HB, as much as possible, timeboxes their worries, if possible to kind of put a little bit of a boundary on how much time they're spending looking backwards or looking at worst case scenarios instead of working forward.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 15:12 Yeah. Tell me more about this timeboxing your worries. What is that?
Jen Dionisio 15:15 Yeah. So this is a practice that's been recommended to me at many times, and I've actually used during some darker moments. It's like when you're aware of the thoughts that are rushing through your head, I know ones that have often come up for me are things like, "Oh my God, you're gonna get in trouble. Oh, my God, you're going to lose your house. Oh, my God, I'm going to not be able to pay this bill," like some of those really like important worries that are going to take up a lot of your brain space and sap your energy for getting out there.
And so a recommendation is to actually, like, block some time on your calendar, maybe it's a half hour at the start of the day, maybe it's a half hour at the end of the day, where you're allowed to just sit in that muck, and that worry, and that fear, and that catastrophizing. But for the other hours of the day, when you start to catch yourself having those thoughts you say, "I'm just gonna jot this down on a note real quick, and I will think about it more tonight." So it's not bypassing all of those feelings, but it's also not letting it take over all of your life.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 16:25 I really love this because I know that when we get into those places where we are just worrying in a spiral and that rumination kicks in, there's no bottom to that, right? Like, you go from "I'm worried I won't find a job," to like, "I'm worried that I'm going to lose my house," to "I'm worried that I'm going to, you know, never work again," and then like down, down, down, down, down. And that part of our brain is so good at feeding itself. And I love the idea then of putting like a hard stop on it and saying, "Nope, my brain will do this indefinitely. So I'm going to put a defined boundary around it."
But also to really highlight that you do need to give it space, because I think if we just get into that place where we only look on the bright side, and we only focus on the positive, then we're really, like you said, bypassing, and we're in that toxic positivity zone, which truly doesn't help anybody. And it doesn't erase those feelings, they're there, they end up just kind of stuck. And then they tend to come out in less useful ways and less useful times.
Jen Dionisio 17:26 And your time is really important right now, because you know, HB, you do have a game plan to put into play for how you're going to find your next role. So that time that you are not spending worrying and ruminating, it's time to really kind of get the list down, like what are the materials you need to get together, whether it's updating your LinkedIn or cleaning up your resume, kind of working on your portfolio to a level that you're comfortable sharing it out, even if it's not perfect? Going back to that social support system, who's in your network that might have leads or referrals, so you're not kind of throwing your resume out into the ether without any sense of like, if those jobs are even really being filled, which I know is a big issue right now?
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 18:11 Yeah.
Jen Dionisio 18:12 And I'd strongly recommend really thinking of what your weekly goals are, and making them very achievable. This is a marathon and not a sprint. So think about how many contacts you have the capacity to reach out to in a week, or how many applications you have the capacity to send in a week, or what groups you want to be more visible in to kind of increase your visibility. And then also set aside some time to take care of yourself and invest in your own wellbeing. So there's worrying time, there's proactive time, and then there's also the time spent being a human and moving your body, seeing loved ones, engaging in a hobby, the things that are going to make you feel good about yourself so that you're not stewing in this sense of "I have nothing to give and everything is crumbling."
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 19:10 Yeah. And you know, I just want to add one thing to that, which is that this is the time where I've noticed it's very easy for people to either get super frantic, and just like apply, apply, apply willy-nilly, or feel frozen and do nothing and, like, stare at their LinkedIn for seven hours and feel like unable to update two sentences. Both of those ends of the spectrum, the frantic applications and the frozen feelings, those are not really putting your best foot forward. They're not necessarily setting you up for a successful job search. What they are is a panic response, right? It's a fear response. It's either like, freak out or shut down.
And so all those practices that you mentioned, Jen, they're all helpful for keeping you out of those zones of frantic or frozen. But the other thing I'd recommend that might really help is who's in your support network, and is there somebody specific who can be your person that you can talk to regularly to help you kind of reconnect with that calm part of yourself, to get present, and to kind of look at things with a little bit more distance, so that that panic part doesn't kick in as much? A therapist is great for that. If you have one already, I hope that you are turning to them. A coach is great for that. I also understand therapists and coaches cost money, and if you are trying to rein in expenses, it might just be a friend.
And that's great, too. If you're talking with a friend, one thing I'll really suggest is try to identify somebody in your life you really trust, who you could have a little bit of a conversation with about this and say, "I could really use someone that I can check in with regularly and help me stay out of those panic zones. Can you be that person?" Because they think it's a different thing than just somebody you can vent to, or somebody who is always going to hype you up, which you might need that too. But that person who can almost co-regulate with you.
So when you're feeling freaked out, they bring calm, and they help you get back to that calm space, because that's really going to help you put one foot in front of the other. And, you know, this is one of those times when, like, there is no way through it except for putting that one foot in front of the other. I think that the more that you give yourself that space to get the support you need, and take care of yourself as you do it, the easier you will find it to continue to take those steps.
Jen Dionisio 21:30 Yeah, that's such a good point, Sara, and HB, I just want to second: ask for help from your support network as much and as often as you need it. I know that can be really uncomfortable when you're already feeling vulnerable. But you have been through a trauma because of this experience. And you deserve the same kind of kindness I'm sure you would give to your support network if they were in the same position as you.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 21:59 Yeah. Thank you, HB, we'd love to hear how things go for you. Jen, are you ready for our next dilemma?
Jen Dionisio 22:10 I'm ready.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 22:11 So this one comes from a content design leader who got a heads up that her layoff was coming, unlike HB. But, well, here's what she shared.
BP 22:20 So my soon-to-be former company let me know I'd have a month remaining before I'd be let go with three months’ severance and healthcare coverage. I'm used to going into "super emergency panic find a job" mode when this happens. But I also know that's not sustainable in this market. And that was before other large companies also laid off content designers in large numbers. How do I balance my own sense of panic and urgency with what's both healthy for me and is best for the community since we're all in this together? How do I figure out what's next while also being present right now?
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 22:57 Okay, so let's call this listener BP for "being present." Even though I totally understand why it's tempting not to be present right now. This is such a tough and painful moment, and like we just talked about panicking is very common. I think one of the things that I really noticed is that panicking is sometimes a coping technique people turn to, and I know it's one I've turned to. It's almost like a way to avoid having those feelings, to avoid having to be present with my grief and my pain. I'm like, "No, I'm gonna go into apply, apply apply mode," right? I'm just like doing tasks. And I could get so focused on the doing that being kind of falls out the window.
And for me, that was something I had to recognize was a capacity I could turn to in certain moments when really necessary, but when that's my default setting, it's actually not very healthy for me, because it does end up bypassing the feelings. So that was when I had to really stop using.
Jen Dionisio 23:54 Yeah, it's wild how panicking can actually feel really proactive when in hindsight, it's not.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 24:03 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay, so for BP, how can they find the balance that they're looking for?
Jen Dionisio 24:10 So I'm hearing a few things that BP shared that I really hope give her confidence. BP has a bit of a runway. She said about four months' worth. And she sounds like she may have experienced a layoff before, so there's proof that she can get through this. And I think that something I'm hearing a very different perspective on for younger folks in the field versus more senior folks in the field who may or may not have been through these previous recessions and industry shifts, when you haven't been through this before you don't quite yet have that awareness that you can move through and be okay on the other side.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 24:55 I think this is really helpful to start with because it's so easy to kind of forget all the tools that you have and all the strengths that you have. But it can be such a big boost to your self trust, to remind yourself, "I've been here before, I know how to get through this, I have a capacity to do this." It can kind of help remind you like, "I don't have to panic. I've got this."
Jen Dionisio 25:19 Yeah. And I also loved that BP made a note of wanting to be invested in the broader community. Like we talked about in the last answer, layoffs often trigger these deep feelings of shame and self-criticism, and that makes people isolate themselves right when they need that care and support the most.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 25:42 Yeah.
Jen Dionisio 25:42 Even in the best of times, job hunting can be a really toxic process that grinds people down, that breaks people's courage, and moments like these where we have these big industry level shifts start to get my brain going on, like, how could this just be different overall? You know, what are the communities of care that can be created for people in the midst of these big layoffs? I'm picturing BP like getting a group of colleagues together who also have this advance notice of being laid off to get together weekly to exchange job tips and advice and be supporting each other instead of kind of in competition with each other.
So you know, BP, think about what you need from your community right now and what capacity you have to offer back, and maybe some of that could contribute to some of your own self-care.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 26:40 You know, it's interesting, I read that comment about the community as also maybe being a little bit of fear based, like, "Oh, if I'm out there competing with people from my community for jobs, am I taking jobs away from people who need them more?" And I'm not sure if that's exactly what BP meant, but I caught a little whiff of that could be and so I can see that fear that like if BP shows up in frantic mode, right? Coming in hot, applying to everything that maybe should be making it harder for other people.
And I think if that's coming up at all, I would say, you know, nobody wins if you hold yourself back from roles that are a good fit for you. That's not actually necessarily good for the community, because you're also part of the community. And so seeing yourself as part of that community, who also needs things to go well, for them, I think is really important here. You know, one of the things that I think sometimes happens for folks who are community-oriented is that they can almost end up sacrificing themselves for the community, as if the community's wellbeing is more important than their personal wellbeing.
But I think there's a fallacy there because that erases the idea that the community is only well when you are also well. Because if every member of the community isn't okay, then the community wellbeing is not where it should be. And so if you think of yourself as part of a community, and you want to be supportive of that community, obviously, yes, do things to show up for that community, and if you're in an interview with a recruiter, and you're like, "Oh, this isn't a good fit for me," but you know someone it could be a good fit for, pass that name along. When you see a job opening, where you're like, "Oh, maybe," and then you look at it more closely and you go, "Oh, no," share that with the people around you, if it might be a good fit for them.
Those are great things you can do for the community, you can show up and talk with people, you can share your tips and ideas, you can collaborate. But I think if we start looking at it as like me versus us, we get into some really dicey territory where nobody wins. And I don't think we need to be in competition in that way. So instead, I would just encourage you to remember that things that go well for you are also part of things going well for the community.
Jen Dionisio 28:56 Yeah, you gotta lift those boats.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 28:58 Okay. So Jen, BP also wanted to know how to figure out what's next for her. Where would you start if she was your client?
Jen Dionisio 29:05 Yeah. So BP's question, you know, "what next" strikes me as a bit less of a tactical question than a philosophical one. There's an exercise I do with a lot of my clients to kind of start getting more awareness outside of a specific role, or industry, or job type about what were the things in your career history, whether that's educational, whether that's literal work, whether it's projects, whether it's, you know, volunteer things that you've done, looking back at sort of the peaks and valleys of your work life to see what are the things like activities and responsibilities that were energizing instead of boring. You know, what kinds of colleagues did you work with in the past that inspired you and not drained you? What conditions were supportive for you instead of toxic?Because those things are really different for everyone.
And a lot of times what we might think are sort of our cookie cutter answers look a little different when we look back at the real experiences that we've had to say, "This kind of situation really worked for me, and this situation really didn't." So then you can take those insights and use that to help guide and put some parameters on what you do and don't apply to next so you're not in that situation where panic mode sets in, and you're just putting yourself in the running for anything that gives a paycheck. And from that position, you're both using your time as efficiently as possible and also setting yourself up to perhaps find something that even though it wasn't what you were intending to find, could even be as pleasant or better than what you had before.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 31:01 I think that that's something that doesn't get talked about enough. You know, layoffs are really hard, and they are destabilizing, and they can be very traumatic. But I think it's actually not uncommon for people to end up in a role later that they're like, "Oh, wait, this is objectively way better." And I'm not saying that's gonna happen, but I think sometimes we get so caught up in, like, pre-writing the story that we assume that it's definitely going to be worse before we've even gotten there. And so I think kind of holding space in your heart for things to be better than you think is sometimes also really helpful. Not so you set your expectations so high that you're disappointed, but just that you're not writing the story in advance, and you're letting things play out.
Jen Dionisio 31:45 Yeah, I know, it can sound a little weird maybe to imagine this moment as an opportunity instead of a total barrier, but even if it's just once in a while, take a moment and think about what it's like to think of this layoff as a door opening instead of closing and how that changes how you put yourself out there in the weeks or months to come.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 32:10 I love the way you put a pin in that. That this is not about always inhabiting the perspective of "this is an opportunity." It's just about, like, trying it on. And like spending a little time, maybe timebox it: "Half an hour I'm going to spend exploring, what does it look like if I imagine this lay off as a door opening? And that's it. And I don't have to totally believe it. It's like, I don't even have to believe it to do this experiment. I just have to let myself try it on for a little while."
Jen Dionisio 32:36 Yeah, like wearing evening dress when you're used to wearing sweats every day.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 32:40 Mmhmm. And you don't have to leave the house in it. But sometimes maybe you want to put it on and see what it feels like. Alright BP, well, keep us posted on how things go. We're rooting for you.
Jen Dionisio 32:49 Yeah, we are.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 32:54 Alright, Jen, are you ready for our last question of today?
Jen Dionisio 32:58 Absolutely.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 32:59 Okay, so this one comes from someone I'll call SO or "starting over." Here's what they say:
SO 33:06 I'd reached a role in my career I was finally happy with and felt like me, but after seven months was laid off. I'm finding it really hard to land an equivalent role. I'd moved from leading content design into general design leadership, but all general design leadership roles seem to want pure design backgrounds, which I don't have. I've been rejected for over 20 roles, and most I've applied for haven't even acknowledged me. My CV is very tailored to play up design leadership and play down content, but the roles I've been offered are back leading content design. I'm a single parent with a mortgage, so I feel no choice but to accept going back to content design leadership and trying to find my way back up again. But I worry it's going to keep me pigeonholed even more as just a content design leader. What's your advice for anyone who feels constantly like they're having to start back at the beginning again?
Jen Dionisio 34:03 SO, that sounds like such a disappointment to finally get the role you wanted and then to be laid off so soon after.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 34:12 Yeah, and after only seven months, too. I can see how that would feel like a really big setback. So I feel for you SO. And Jen, I'm curious what you would say to SO or anyone feeling like they're stuck back in square one?
Jen Dionisio 34:25 Yeah, you know, SO, I know you feel like you're starting back at the beginning again, but no one can take those seven months of design leadership away from you or your resume. That isn't erased just because your role was eliminated. So while you're thinking of what's next, there are a few questions I might ask as a coach to make that statement feel a little less like an empty platitude and more of an investigation into the idea or the belief that you have that you are starting from scratch. So like, what inspired your transition from content leadership to design leadership? What were the things that made that exciting and interesting for you? How did you make that transition, right?
I imagine that you gained a bunch of new skills and experience that made you qualified to move into this new role. So remind yourself like, what were those? What did your bosses and teammates see in you that made them believe that you could be successful? And what gave you the courage to throw your hat in the ring? And lastly, like, how was it being a design leader? For those months, what were your strengths? Maybe your content expertise really made you stand out and be an asset to bridging these different disciplines. Or maybe it was your overall leadership skills that were able to be applied in a new way. You know, going back to that first question, what are you proudest of from those seven months? What did you learn?
Being new to this role, I imagine SO may have an inner critic voice really driving a lot of their worry about what's possible next, and that sense of being back at ground zero. But it's really important to give as much ammunition to your inner champions that give you confidence as it is to those inner critics that tell you that you're starting over. Sara, what do you think?
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 36:29 Yeah, you know, something I might add to that that's more on like the practical job search side is that SO really focus on cementing themselves in design leadership communities and spaces, and thinking carefully about who's in their network. Who is referring them to jobs? Who's talking them up? I love content folks, you know, I have a content background. You have a content background. But if you're trying to stay in a more overall design leadership role, it might be really worthwhile to lean into the relationships that you have outside of content right now and to think about how you can become more visible in design leadership overall.
So what are the strong product design and opinions that you have? If you were going to write or speak to a design audience, what would you say to them? What are the perspectives that you have about product design and about being a design leader that you'd like the world to know more about? So that it's not just about how you're carefully crafting your CV, but also about who are you in community with and what are you talking about with that community in this particular moment? That might open up more connections to people who are maybe more relevant to this particular job search than some of your past connections have been. And it might open up just more visibility for yourself, positioning yourself around the things that are more focused on where you'd like to go and less focused on where you've been.
Jen Dionisio 38:00 Sara, that is such a great recommendation, you know, and I think that for SO, that's a piece of advice that you can carry with you, even if you do end up taking some sort of short term role in content while you're waiting to find that new design leadership job. I'm someone who always is looking at the worst case scenario and how I cover my bases. And so I want to acknowledge that SO, you have some financial realities that may make it hard to hold out for that ideal job, especially when you have this data that the content leadership offers are coming through more frequently. So let's imagine that we're thinking through a very different scenario than the one that you shared one where SO takes a content leadership role in the short term with out getting pigeonholed for life.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 38:59 Mmhmm.
Jen Dionisio 39:01 Sara, here's how I think SO can make that scenario more likely because getting pigeonholed for life sounds awful. During your interviews, you know, maybe it's getting a sense of how closely the content and design teams at the company you're talking to collaborate or overlap. Maybe there is a very different definition of what content leadership versus design leadership looks like at some of these other places than what you've seen in the company you were already at. And maybe it's a good opportunity to kind of ask those interviewers about what pathways exist for employees to transition between disciplines or move to different kinds of areas of the business.
And then once you're hired, let's say you get hired as a content leader, start to think about how you can show off your design expertise and show that these are strengths that you have, too, and you are an expert in both disciplines. Showing that opens up the door for you to talk to your manager or leadership about what opportunities are there for you to stretch beyond your role, and move back into that kind of design leadership role that you want.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 40:18 It's interesting, this is such a common thing that I hear coming up with folks in content leadership where in their organizations, it's often true that a generalist designer, like a product designer, can become a manager and a senior manager director, and they can oversee content people. But the reverse is never true, the content person can't become a senior manager overseeing UX designers or product designers. Which I think is deeply problematic. I know people who've left companies and jobs they cared about because they realize that their path was stunted there because of that policy.
And I think it's unfair, it's not equitable, it doesn't make any sense if all of these people make up the product design team, then any of them should be able to build the capacity to lead that product design team. But that aside, I think, you know, what you're saying here around asking some questions during the interview process, it's going to help you figure out how much space is available in that company, and whether you're going to end up super siloed, or if there is a little bit more overlap.
The other thing though, you know, coming back to this issue of "but I need a job," right? Like, single parent, gotta pay the mortgage. So if you take a job, and you're like, "This is not really the right fit, but this is a paycheck," it can feel wrong or bad, like you're doing something wrong, to keep looking. But I would encourage you to allow yourself that grace to keep looking for jobs that are a better fit, even if that means you end up with something really brief on your resume. And I say that because well, look around. Look at all the people writing us about their layoffs. Like, companies…they're not looking out for your interest.
Jen Dionisio 42:02 Nope.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 42:03 The only one who's going to look out for you in this scenario is probably you. And as much as you don't want to, you know, let teams down, or be flaky, or whatever stories are going through your head about quitting a job shortly after starting it, I think it's important to remember that you don't owe anything to your company beyond the kind of transactional agreement that you're setting up when you take on a role for an amount of salary. And anything that you might owe to your colleagues, so just being a good colleague, that's understandable to have some feelings about it. But it doesn't mean that you have to stay there when that's not a great fit. And as we talked about before, if you leave one of those content jobs, shoot, there's a bunch of other people out there who probably really want it. And that might open up space for them to get a job that they would love to have.
Jen Dionisio 42:55 Yeah, Sara, such a great point. So, SO, I know, you may find yourself taking a step or two back before you're in design leadership again. Not saying that's definitely what's going to happen, but being realistic, it's a possibility. But whatever happens, know that you are not starting from scratch. And there is going to be somewhere that wants a design leader like you.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 43:24 And actually, I want to flag something here when I hear SO say that they feel like they're starting over, moving backward, pigeonholed forever, that's a flag for me that there's some binary thinking that might be happening. You know, things are either good or bad, right or wrong, it's everything or nothing. And that's one of those cognitive distortions that are so believable during stressful times. But the problem with those cognitive distortions is that they leave us stuck in this really extreme point of view, right? Like "pigeonholed forever," "starting over," those are very disempowering kind of ways of looking at the situation.
So the more extreme your perspective is, the fewer options you might feel like you have. The reality that I know is true is that life is just a lot weirder than a single straight line forward. And there are so many turns and bends in careers and in lives. It might feel to SO like they've fallen off a ladder. I'd also encourage them to think about the idea that there is no ladder
Jen Dionisio 44:28 Yes.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 44:28 There is not one single line upward. And in fact, some of the people I know who on paper have moved most seamlessly upward in their careers are often the same people who come to me absolutely miserable, feeling like they built themselves a little prison to live in. And that little prison might have a director title associated with it, but they're unhappy. They don't like their lives, and they don't like their work, and on paper, it looks really good. They had this very nice trajectory upwards. But in practice, I don't know that they're in a better place than SO is finding themselves in.
So while this is a letdown, I would also just hold on to the idea that most people truly don't have a linear path. And the people who do have a linear path are not necessarily happier. Things can unfold in so many unexpected ways. And sometimes the thing that feels like a setback often ends up opening up some new idea, unlocking something different, giving you information or self-knowledge that you hadn't even thought about before. And this isn't a silver lining to your layoff. But just to say, SO, I encourage you not to write this story in advance.
Jen Dionisio 45:40 Sara, I think that that is some words of wisdom that would be perfect to end this episode with.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 45:46 Okay, well, I just want to say I know how tough of a time it is for people who've been laid off right now. And I also know that like, this episode isn't gonna fix anything, right? Like, it doesn't magically erase what's going on. But if you're listening and you've been laid off, I really do hope that it helps you cope and feel a little more seen and less alone.
Jen Dionisio 46:14 That's it for this week's episode. Per My Last Email is a production of Active Voice. Check us out at https://www.activevoicehq.com/ and get all the past episodes show notes and full transcripts for Per My Last Email at https://pmleshow.com/. This episode was produced by Emily Duncan. Our theme music is "(I'm a) Modern Woman" by Maria T. Buy her album at https://thisismariat.bandcamp.com/. Thank you to Hurt and Betrayed, Being Present, and Starting Over for submitting their stories to today's show. And thank you for listening. If you've got a work situation that's eating away at you, send it over to us. Head to https://pmleshow.com/ and click submit a dilemma to share it with us.