You can’t doomscroll your way out of disillusionment…but it’s pretty tempting to keep trying.
What do you do when your burnout doesn’t just feel like exhaustion, but more like disillusionment—and maybe even cynicism? In today’s episode, Sara and Jen tackle questions from listeners who are struggling to keep afloat amid job search burnout, career malaise, and the kinds of communication breakdowns that leave us questioning, well, everything.
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Jen Dionisio 0:00 It's in everyone's interest for you to be reengaged and growing. And that includes you, but that includes your organization as well, especially if you're burning out and you may start to think about leaving anyway.
Jen Dionisio 0:14 How are you doing today, Sara?
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 0:35 You know what, Jen? I think back.
Jen Dionisio 0:37 Whoa! So for everyone listening, Sara and I have both had COVID in September.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 0:44 Didn't get it from each other. Independent choices.
Jen Dionisio 0:48 Our bodies are in sync. It's like our periods.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 0:54 Wow, that's not the kind of sisterhood I was actually looking for.
Jen Dionisio 0:58 Too bad. You got it.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 0:59 Here we are. Yeah, I am now feeling good. But I'm still in that, like "the CDC says you do you," but I say maybe...maybe stay home a few extra days.
Jen Dionisio 1:09 Well, we can both stay home and record this podcast. So that worked out well for us.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 1:14 Thankfully, because I'm really excited for this episode. And I'm excited to get back into it because we have so many interesting dilemmas from people. Jen, are you ready?
Jen Dionisio 1:24 I'm ready. Welcome everyone to Per My Last Email, the show about what to do when work gets weird. I'm Jen Dionisio.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 1:32 And I am Sara Wachter-Boettcher.
Jen Dionisio 1:34 So Sara, you said you're excited about these dilemmas coming up? What are we talking about today?
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 1:39 Yeah, well, I am excited about them, even though I'm going to warn you now they are a little bit heavy. So we're going to talk about burnout. And not just the burnout that's like, "I've been working too hard and too many hours," but the burnout that runs deep. The one that's like disillusionment, maybe even cynicism?
Jen Dionisio 2:00 Oh, that like existential crisis feeling.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 2:04 That's the one.
Jen Dionisio 2:06 Yeah, it's been so pervasive lately. Like, I feel like I've had a number of clients talk to me about "should I even be in design anymore? Like, there are so many problems in the field." And, you know, I always find it a little bit hard to answer because like, yeah, true. I mean, we talk about them all the time on this show. But I also feel like, these aren't very different challenges than what people are facing in other industries. Like, when I talk to my teacher friends, or doctor friends, or friends working in social services, I mean, it feels like the burnout is more tied to the symptoms of capitalism rather than being about tech and design, specifically.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 2:50 Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think every time people start talking to me about how they're like, "You know, I just don't know if I care about any of this work anymore. And what's the point?" It's like, capitalism did this. And I think that's a big thing to reckon with because here we all are trying to get by and trying to exist, while capitalism is very much still the system.
And also, then sometimes we get to this place where it's like, "Well, maybe I shouldn't enjoy any of this. Maybe I shouldn't care about problem solving at work. Maybe I shouldn't get invested in design because then am I just like, forgetting about all this other stuff? Am I just forgetting about the sort of, like, social structures that exist around us?" And I don't think that's really the answer, either. I think that there's so much that we just kind of have to hold in tension and say, "Okay, I'm going to try to look for ways to live that give me a sense of hope, that reduce exploitation of myself and the people around me whenever and wherever I can, and kind of say, like, 'I gotta do the best with what I have here.'"
Jen Dionisio 3:53 I mean, it's like, "Here is my sphere of influence. I need to take care of myself. I need to take care of my community and hopefully take care of the people that I'm serving."
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 4:03 Right. Well, and just think about the ways that it's like, you can still find some joy, and you can still find some ways to subvert the system, or step outside of the system, but also find some ways to just get some lightness and you know, maybe a little bit of fulfillment instead of just like disillusionment, disappointment, cynicism all the time, which I don't think it's helping any of us.
Jen Dionisio 4:25 Are you looking at me when you’re thinking that?
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 4:30 No, you always bring the lightness. I feel like you always bring a little bit of hope. And actually, that's what I am hoping you can bring to some of our listeners today. Are you ready to dive in?
Jen Dionisio 4:40 I'll do my best. Let's do it.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 4:45 Okay, so this first one comes to us from someone who asked to be called Val.
Val 4:52 I was laid off a few months ago. A huge percentage of my LinkedIn feed is people saying they've been laid off or have been unemployed for several months, to the point where they're facing the very real prospect of losing their home. Before I check LinkedIn, I have to mentally brace myself, because I know it may be jarring. For my job search, it is the most significant tool. For my mental health, it's terror-inducing and detrimental. I'm not sure I can find a way to reconcile the two. I've applied for about 70 jobs over the past two months and am completely mentally burnt out; but I'm also terrified of everything crashing down. I don't know how to keep going.
How can you overcome job seeking burnout, especially when layoffs in your field are rampant and the "social feed" nature of LinkedIn is detrimental to mental health? How else can introverts "network"?
Jen Dionisio 5:59 LinkedIn really has become an emotional landmine in the past year. So it's whiplash, right? Because you just see a post about somebody losing their job, then a post about somebody finding a job, and then a post about somebody losing their job. It's just like one extreme to another. So I feel for you, Val. The burnout of job searching is really challenging for so many people.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 6:21 Yeah.
Jen Dionisio 6:22 Almost in part because there are so many people right now.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 6:26 Yeah, you know, I think, Val, you're not wrong, right? Like, you're not wrong about how rough it has been out there. I was looking at https://layoffs.fyi/, where they've been tracking specifically tech industry layoffs, and they're reporting that as of the end of September when we're recording this, more than 100 companies have had layoffs this year. But almost 240,000 people have been laid off because some of those layoffs were really huge. Yeah, that definitely is a big number to contend with.
Jen Dionisio 6:54 Yeah. And it can get really overwhelming for like a single, individual person, because you start wondering like, "Oh, my God, am I competing with 250,000 people for jobs and support?"
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 7:06 Right?
Jen Dionisio 7:06 Who am I in this mass?
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 7:08 Cue the hopelessness. And so I don't want to undercut how hard it's been. But I do want to also mention that I'm also seeing that there are some strong signals that things are changing. So, TechCrunch just reported on the 26th of September, so very recently, that according to several trend reports that they're looking at one of them is https://layoffs.fyi/, the number of layoffs actually peaked in January and declined 90% since then.
Jen Dionisio 7:34 Wow. That's huge.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 7:35 Yeah, well, what that means is that there were a lot of people laid off in January, and that the number of people laid off in September is 90% less. But cumulatively, it's still a lot of people. But they also saw a lot of signs cropping up that companies are starting to rehire or to open up roles again. And I've been hearing that from other quarters as well. And I think it's going to take a while for that to translate into there being jobs for all those people who are already laid off.
Like, 100%, there is a large number of people who are still kind of caught in that swirl. But I really wanted to point that out because I know that when you are surrounded by a lot of people who are going through it, all that pain and all of that doom and gloom can feel so pervasive, and it can feel like the only signal you're getting, but there are other signs out there, and they're pointing that we might be headed in a direction that feels a little bit more hopeful and a little bit more spacious than where we've been the last few months.
Jen Dionisio 8:30 You know, it's funny, I am thinking now about like the 2008 recession, you know, which felt in a lot of ways very similar. And remembering like, yeah, it was awful out there. But then things did bounce back. And for me, that recession was what started to pull me into design and UX. Before that I didn't even have those as jobs on my radar. And so after that recession, it really kind of felt like something big and exciting emerged from all of that turmoil.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 9:03 Yeah, and I think it really does speak to the fact that when we're kind of in the darkest part of something, it can be hard to imagine that it'll be better. You know, we talked about how we both had COVID. So did my husband, and he had that moment where he was very sick, and where he had that feeling of like, "I will feel this sick forever." And of course, logically, he knew that wasn't true. But that's kind of what it feels like when you're in that shitty moment; it's like, "and this is how it will be indefinitely." And it can be hard to imagine things getting better. But I think that things are always changing. And this moment is not forever. So anyway, let's get back to Val. So Jen, Val is burned out. Val is logging on to LinkedIn, and feeling terror. But Val also needs a job. So how does he keep going?
Jen Dionisio 9:53 Yeah, so I think there are some really tactical steps that Val can take to make this process a little less terrifying. But before we go into that, the first thing I want to tell Val to do is stop. Because muscling through when you're already burned out and spent is just a recipe for more burnout. And I don't want that for you, Val, at all. So when I say stop, I know everything in your body is probably like, "No, no, no, but I need to find a job." But you're still doing work. This is still part of the job search process to pause and take stock of where you're at financially and emotionally.
So Val, you mentioned it's been a few months since you were laid off. The first question that comes to mind for me is, how are you doing money-wise? I ask this because there are so many empathetic, caring people, and I suspect you may be one of them, who log on to LinkedIn, hear stories about people losing their homes, or really suffering, and because you have empathy, you're going to have some big feelings about it. But what I didn't hear in this dilemma is if this is actually a looming issue for you personally, because if it's not, you may be kind of carrying a weight and a stress that's actually not relevant to you and your situation right now. And so like, if you haven't already, please sit down with your finances and get a really clear picture of what you have, and how long it can sustain you. Because that factual information might really help put some distance between what you're absorbing from other people's experiences and what your reality is.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 11:53 And just to be clear, I mean, the purpose of that is not to like not care about other people having a hard time. It's just to not personally identify with it and carry extra stress as if it's happening to you. Because that's just harder on you, and it doesn't actually help those people either.
Jen Dionisio 12:09 Yeah.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 12:09 So it's not about not caring when you see those stories, but it's about how do you interpret that information? And does your brain and body know that that's not happening to you?
Jen Dionisio 12:18 Yeah. Which can be really hard to do, because we identify with—
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 12:21 Oh, yeah.
Jen Dionisio 12:21 our fellow colleagues.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 12:23 Yeah.
Jen Dionisio 12:24 So once you kind of know that practical stuff out, then you get to go to feelings time. And I know you said you're feeling terrified. And that totally makes sense. But I'd love for you to ask yourself a little more specifically, like, what are you most afraid of? Maybe for you, it is something like losing your house. Or, you know, maybe it's something like having to settle for a job that you don't really want. I mean, it could be any number of things. So get those down on paper, so you have kind of a sense of what is really bothering you most and what's causing you the most stress and pain. And then I want you to ask yourself what stories you're telling yourself about these fears? Are they really accurate?
As humans, our brains are just chock full of biases. And a really common one is, of course, confirmation bias, where we look for the information that will validate the beliefs we have. So something to really pay attention to is like, are you scanning your LinkedIn feed and only taking in the tough stories or only pausing to engage with the rougher stories? Are you noticing other kinds of posts where people who have been laid off are announcing that they have found new work and that they're excited about it, and they're settling in, and it's going well? You know, Sara, this came up a lot for me when I had cancer. Obviously, not a job search, but it's another situation where in the middle of a crisis, you're really kind of relying on an online community to help you understand what the hell is going on with you and what you can expect to happen next.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 13:50 Oh my gosh, yeah.
Jen Dionisio 14:09 So I was on like, a million message boards looking for help looking for information. And I got so overwhelmed by all of those kind of like, worst case scenario stories that I found on there, and it was really terrifying. And I talked to my doctor about it, and they were like, "Get off of there." And I started having more conversations with people I knew in real life who had had the same kind of cancer, and it was so helpful. Like, it didn't mean that there was nothing to worry about or be fearful of. But what I did still have to grapple with was just a lot less catastrophic than what I thought I might be facing.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 14:54 Yeah, you know, those message boards can be such a double edged sword. Like, on the one hand It's like, "Oh my gosh, finally, people with real info, people who have been there." And at the same time, it can be just the most extreme stories and can get you even more worked up. And I love what you're saying about it's really like the same with LinkedIn. It's like, yeah, it can be a really helpful tool to know you're not in it alone. But it can also really prime you to just see doom everywhere.
Jen Dionisio 15:22 Yeah. And if you're only identifying with the people who haven't come through their unemployment yet, Val, you might be really cutting yourself off from a powerful and grounding emotion, which is hope. And I know, I might sound like I'm teetering at the edge of toxic positivity. I'm always really mindful of that, because I do feel really positive about a lot of things in the middle of crisis. But hope. Hope is a really powerful motivator, and often more times than fear.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 15:58 Yeah. And I think that's so important here because I mean, you know, like you mentioned, having cancer is not the same as not having a job. But they're both really stressful situations and full of unknowns. They're crisis points for people. And when we are in stress states, like when our brains and our bodies are in a stress state, they are so susceptible to those cognitive distortions. They are so susceptible to, you know, confirmation bias. And so I'm really glad that you're kind of talking about, okay, like, how do you take a step back from that? How do you kind of look at stuff with a little bit more distance? And how do you maybe selectively choose to look at some other things and to not hyper focus only on the stuff that confirms your worst fear? Okay. So Jen, you also mentioned some tactical steps that you'd recommend to Val once he gets his brain into this better spot. So what are those?
Jen Dionisio 16:49 Yeah. So going back to those message boards, when I started getting really overwhelmed there and realized, like, I can't sustain this. I'm stressed enough, I don't need this too. I decided that, you know, I wasn't going to completely abandon them, because there was information that I wanted. But I decided to put some rules in strategy about when and how to engage. And I think Val can use that on LinkedIn as well. I don't know, Val, how you've approached your job search so far. But it sounds like some boundaries might help protect your mental health while you're engaging on LinkedIn, since it is your most significant tool.
And I don't want to tell you to just shut it down and never log in again, like that's not realistic. So, a few things that you might want to think about, like, let's talk about alerts. Are those coming in-app, or are they forwarding to your email? If you have your LinkedIn showing up on your phone, constantly pinging you, steering you towards logging in and looking at the whole site, that can really kind of start to take over all of your thoughts and capacity. But if you are changing your settings so that updates, and notifications, and job announcements are coming directly to your email, that might shield you from the constant kind of logging in and out of the site and limit your exposure to the wider feed a bit more.
And then when you do log in to LinkedIn, try to think about how you can do it mindfully. Ask yourself, "What is my goal for this session, this amount of time that I'm going to be on this site?" Maybe it's something like, "I want to find five open roles. And once I find those, I'm shutting this down." Or, "This is a networking moment. I really want to comment on three people's feeds that I feel like are relevant to the work I do. I'm gonna do that, and then I'm shutting down, doing something else." Or, "I'm logging in because I am going to request one introduction from somebody I already know." If you keep these sorts of goals, small and specific, you'll know when you're done and when you've like, accomplished that thing. And then you can get off and also feel like you were productive in that time, you weren't just kind of doom scrolling through the feed.
Another thing, and this is gonna sound maybe a little "woo," but I've found it really works is how can you set a more positive, or comfortable, or calming environment for yourself while you're doing this research? Light a candle. I really struggle with emails, as somebody, you know, with ADHD who cannot complete some of the most basic tasks without a lot of mental gymnastics. So I take myself to my favorite coffee shop every Saturday to catch up on all the emails I didn't have time for, and it turns something that I'm really dreading and that really stresses me out into something that like, actually feels kind of nice. And then afterwards, once you kind of go onto that site, is there a way you can reward yourself by doing something that feels good? You know, maybe it's just taking a walk. Or maybe it's calling a friend. Or anything that kind of restores that sense of life in the real world and not life on the internet.
And the last one, I'd love to know from you, Val, like, how are you choosing the roles that you submit applications for? Because I feel like something I see a lot is people get really afraid, and it compels them to just start blasting out resumes and cover letters to like any job with UX in the title, regardless of whether it's actually something you want, if it's too junior for you, too senior for you. And your energy is precious. So how can you prioritize? And are there things that you can standardize about applying to things that will save you time, so you don't have to spend so many hours kind of in that job searching mode for your day to day life?
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 21:06 Yeah, you know, blasting out a ton of applications is something I see people do a lot. And I really think of it is actually like a knee jerk response to stress, because it feels like you're doing something. And it feels like, "Well, I did all of these things," right? "I applied to eight things, twelve things, fourteen things." But you know, it can also be really demoralizing, especially on LinkedIn, it's very easy to apply. And that means there's often a lot of applications, many of which are not that qualified. And when you are on LinkedIn, you'll see that it's like, you know, 134 other people have applied, or you know, 712 other people have applied, and you're like, "Gosh, now I'm mentally stack ranking myself against all these strangers. I don't even know who they are."
The other thing is that it's just not very effective because when we blast out resumes, what really happens is that we tend to be more general and vague. We tend to be more one size fits all. And we tend to not be able to show up really effectively for the specific roles we'd actually be best at. And I know that Val does not necessarily want to do a lot of networking. I know that networking feels hard for you, Val. But what I will say is that that is really the most effective place to do a job search is by really tapping into the connections that you already have and focusing on building relationships with people who are maybe at the periphery of your network now who maybe are connected to people who have jobs or at companies that you might want to work with. And so yeah, I think we should talk a bit more about networking.
Jen Dionisio 22:42 Yeah, you know, Sara, I actually kind of am struggling a little bit with the last part of Val's question, you know how to network as an introvert because I personally actually find reaching out to people to be far less stressful than putting together cover letters and resumes and kind of sending them out into the void. And I'm curious for you, do you have any special tips or tricks for introverts that are trying to network?
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 23:06 Yeah, I have some thoughts on this. I don't identify as an introvert, and a lot of people assume I'm just a total extrovert because I can be loud, and I do public facing things. But I will tell you that it is not easy for me to reach out to somebody, particularly like unbidden, you know?
Jen Dionisio 23:20 Yeah.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 23:20 Like, the idea of dropping a DM to someone, even if it's somebody I already know, and like asking for things, I find very hard. I think that there's a lot of fear of rejection in there. And so for me, that's something that I've really had to learn to be better at as a small business owner. But I was also just reading a really helpful guide to networking from Jennifer Kim. So Jennifer Kim is somebody I followed for a long time because she writes about HR and hiring and DEI work specifically in the tech industry, and she does it and one of the like, most thoughtful and least gross ways I've ever seen. So I really appreciate her work. We will link to her. But she wrote this piece called "Networking Advice for People Who Hate Networking, but Need a Job."
Jen Dionisio 24:01 Oh, how appropriate.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 24:02 Yeah, relevant, right? So one of the things that she really hits home in this is that networking has a bad rap because we associate it oftentimes with something that feels fake or transactional. And that's often because when we talk about networking, we're imagining like giving out business cards to tons of people at a meet up, or sending unsolicited DMS to randos. And her take is that it's actually much more about networking with the people you already know. So strengthening the network you already have and strengthening the connections within that network. And Jen, I think you're gonna like the place she recommends that people start, because it's not actually reaching out. It's looking inwards.
Jen Dionisio 24:43 Oh.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 24:44 I know, one of your favorite things, right?
Jen Dionisio 24:46 Always.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 24:47 Yeah. So what she says that actually the first place to start when you're networking is to reflect on your career, your strengths, the work you've done so far. Sounds pretty familiar to coaching, right?
Jen Dionisio 24:57 Sure does.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 24:58 Yeah. And so the reason that she recommends this is that when we look inward, that's going to give us a different kind of context for our external conversations, because we're going to be able to have a lot more clarity about what it is that we are looking for, more clarity on what it is that we're really good at, what sets us apart, what we've accomplished in the past, and we're gonna be able to use that more effectively in conversation. And so once you've done some reflection, and she has some great questions in her article, so definitely check out that article if you want some of those reflection questions.
But once you've done that reflection, then she says, "Okay, now make a list of people you've worked with." It doesn't have to be a million people, it could just be a few. But it could be people that you've worked with closely or more distantly, it could be somebody who was like, you know, a stakeholder or a project partner, cross-functional teammate three jobs ago, the people that you have a somewhat positive association with, right? You're like, "I liked working with them." And again, they don't have to be super close, just people who have some relationship to you.
And when you reach out to those people, be specific about what you're looking for. And that might be are you looking for introductions to people who are in their network? Are you looking for a referral at their company they're at now? Maybe you're looking for feedback on your resume, or your cover letter. Maybe you're looking for help brainstorming ideas for where else you might look for roles that you haven't thought of yet? There's a lot of different things you can ask for, but having some specific ask is really helpful, because it's so easy to show up to these networking conversations from that place of panic, or fear. And then we're just like, "Help. Help me." Or we're like cynical and negative.
And when we show up in that way, it's actually really hard for people to help us. And you know, to be honest, those vibes can be really off-putting. I'm not asking you not to have those feelings of negativity or frustration. But that when we bring those to a networking convo, that is maybe not the most effective place to work out those feelings. So that actually brings me to something that really stuck out to me and Val's letter. Jen, did you catch this? Val mentioned that no one in his network seems to be able or willing to help?
Jen Dionisio 27:09 Yeah.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 27:09 That really struck me. You know, Val, I want to bet that your network does want to help you. But it's often not clear how people can help. And especially if the person who wants help has been showing up in any of those ways I mentioned before, like, showing up all stressed and freaking out and frantic or like, "please help, me help me," it can make it really difficult and stressful for the other person to figure out how to help you. So something I'm going to encourage you to do, Val, is just to really reflect on who have you been asking for help? What have you been asking for? And how have you been asking for that help?
And if you haven't been asking people who have some sort of relationship to you already, some understanding of your work, and you haven't been asking for something specific, and maybe you've been showing up in a way that is frantic or cynical or demanding and pushy, if any of that is ringing true, I will really encourage you to just kind of take a moment and reset that approach to networking.
Jen Dionisio 28:12 That's a great point.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 28:13 Now, that doesn't mean networking suddenly becomes easy, though.
Jen Dionisio 28:17 Never.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 28:18 No. Networking is hard, introvert or not. It's hard to reach out to people. And I think what I said is like that fear of rejection comes up for me, it's because there's always a risk of somebody saying no. But in order to make it a little easier for somebody more introverted, what I would really recommend is just thinking of it as one-on-one conversations, because a lot of times that's where introverts thrive, when they can focus in and be interested in a single person, when they can have an intimate conversation, that's often the most fertile ground for people who are more introverted, who are less comfortable in a group setting, less comfortable sort of in a performative setting.
Think of it as this is the chance for you to connect with somebody in a way that is maybe more comfortable and more natural for you. You can look at it as a way to catch up with your past colleagues. And yes, you have an agenda. You want a job. That's not a secret if you've been laid off. But it's not a gross agenda. It's just a human one. You're just a human who needs a job. And don't we all, right? Like, don't we all have bills to pay? And so if you know what you're looking for, and you can give people an achievable way that they can help you, I think a lot of people will want to help, especially if you're honestly curious about them, too. If you're curious about how that past colleague likes their new job, and where their career has taken them, and what they've found has been really useful to them, those kinds of questions, you know, can turn it from something where it just feels like you're trying to take, take, take into something that feels more natural, more comfortable for everybody.
Jen Dionisio 29:45 Yeah. I love this reframe of networking as connecting because it's true. And that frame can make such a difference in how you approach the process. It becomes so much less heavy. And there's so much less expectation put on what a single conversation or request can accomplish. And Sara, going back to what you shared about Jennifer, be sure, Val, to take that time to remind yourself of what you have accomplished, what your strengths are, and what matters to you so that you are able to really communicate that to yourself and the people that you're interacting with. Because ultimately, you're the most powerful ally you have in the job hunting process. So Val, show up for yourself.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 30:41 Good luck, Val. Thank you so much for writing in.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 30:48 Okay, Jen, are you ready for another dilemma?
Jen Dionisio 30:51 I am. Queue it up.
DD 30:53
I am UX Designer and Researcher becoming more interested in content design and UX writing the more I hear about it. However, I have a number of health problems (including mental health challenges) that make it hard to step up to take more responsibility in my existing work, or to learn new things outside of work. I wouldn't be too worried - I could always push my work further in the research and coaching direction (I have the experience - near 15 years), except that I feel like I'm becoming disillusioned and burned out with my work, especially in my organization, which has very low UX maturity.
So my question is basically, 'what should I do?' How do I decide if I'm really done with UX design/research or if I'm just really, really burned out? Is there a difference? How do I decide if I should change my focus? If I do decide to change, how do I figure out how to tackle that new focus? How do I figure out what I want to be when I grow up?
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 31:44 Okay, Jen, let's call this listener DD, for "Disillusioned Designer." She is unhappy in her organization, but she's not sure how much of that is this org and team or how much of it is that she'd rather be doing content design. And she's not really sure where she's going. So how might she figure this one out?
Jen Dionisio 32:01 Yeah. Great question. Thanks for writing in, DD. I think the first thing I'd want DD to think about is when did work start burning you out? You know, was it gradual? Is it unique to this organization, or, you know, has this been kind of growing throughout your career and in previous jobs. Or maybe it's that like something big changed, like you had a reorg, or you got moved to a different team and that's kind of influencing how you're feeling about your work right now. And so once you kind of know, like, here's when I really started kind of feeling disillusioned with this work I'm doing, then you can go into the detail of what makes that work so exhausting.
I think it would be a really big tell about whether the work itself has lost its appeal or it's more that being in an immature organization has like built up a bunch of frustrations in you that are making you think like, "I can't do this kind of job anymore." You know, and hearing that DD has been in UX and research for like 15 years, what kind of career did you want to have? And is the reality of what you're experiencing stacking up to that? Or has what you wanted to see in your career changed, and you're in a role that's not really relevant to it anymore? Like, I remember a couple years ago, getting a little bit burned out and bored with content strategy. And you know, I quit my job. But I found a new way to kind of get that spark back by changing my focus from more of like the craft of content and really kind of shifting that over towards people management and thought leadership.
And actually, Sara, I hear a lot from clients about the reverse of that, actually, you know, that they're so exhausted from people management, that the project work is kind of a respite. It's like a way to escape the stress of, you know, having to care for other people. And it's a way to kind of fall back in love with the work that you're doing. And a lot of those people, rather than leaving the field, realize that like, for now, at least, their life might be easier if they just go back to being independent contributors for a while.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 34:32 Mhm. Yeah, sometimes I think that that kind of decision can also feel like stepping backwards, but what I think of it is more like, "I'm going to make a shakeup happen here. And then I want to see what happens on the other side of that, and maybe I want to go back into management. Maybe I want to go back into research, or maybe I do want to be a generalist," but it's like almost just giving you some time to completely like shake it all up, like shake up the snowglobe and then see what happens on the other end. And I feel like it's something that I just want to encourage more people to let themselves try because I think sometimes people get so caught up in the idea of what they should be doing that they don't let themselves just say like, "Wait a second. What if I don't hold this so tightly?" You know?
Jen Dionisio 35:16 You know, this is actually made me think about many years ago, I don't know, maybe like 10, 12 years ago, I had started thinking about, you know, wanting to transition out of content and have kind of a more research and UX-focused role. You know, and I did like a UX certification. I invested that money, like my company didn't pay for it. I paid for it. And I started job hunting, and I got offered a really great content strategy role. And I was like, "Oh, no, but like, I just put all this time and effort and money into learning all of these other skills. Am I letting myself down? Like, am I giving up?"
And now in hindsight, like, absolutely not. Like, I was able to use a lot of those skills. They were helpful in collaborating with people. And they're something I could always choose to kind of fall back on if and when I ever want to do that again. So there is that question around is it the work itself and the skills and the tasks you're doing? Or is this sort of disillusionment coming from your experience with your company? Because if it's company-related, it's pretty unlikely you're going to have a better experience transitioning to content there. And that tells you that it's probably time to move on.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 36:39 Yeah, I mean, I love content work. It is my historic home.
Jen Dionisio 36:42 Same.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 36:42 But it's not typically well supported or robust in an organization. And if DD already has a UX-immature org, I mean, hell, they may not even have a content person, much less team. So that's not necessarily like an easier path, either.
Jen Dionisio 37:00 Yeah. So DD, I'd really love to know, like, why is content calling to you? And not to say that there's a right or wrong answer to that. But again, like, if you really kind of start to put some specificity to it, you might get some clues. And even if you realize that you have to leave your organization, that doesn't mean that while you're looking for your next job that you can't start growing your content expertise now or kind of in the interim.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 37:32 Yeah. Yeah. So what about the other part of DD's question? Like, if she does want to go into content design and UX writing, what does it look like for her to investigate that world more deeply, without it adding a ton to her plate since that's a big concern, too?
Jen Dionisio 37:47 One of my biggest regrets in life is that I spent so much time when I was entering the field, doing workshops, and webinars and networking events outside of work.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 37:58 You people have no idea how many things Jen signed up for. She is a master signer-upper.
Jen Dionisio 38:05 Oh, and I would realize though, I'd be like, "Oh my gosh, these people in my professional network, I know everything going on in their lives. But like my best friend, I haven't seen in six months." That's not a healthy balance, either. So I'm glad that even though some of the reason that, you know, DD is saying that they don't have extra capacity outside of their work hours is because of mental health challenges, I love that you are aware of that, and like protecting yourself in that way.
But I think it's actually really valid for anyone to be thoughtful about how much of yourself you're putting into work outside of working hours. So thinking about how to kind of build up your content expertise at work, I think there are a few ways that you might go about that. You know, I'd be curious, like, if you do have a content team at your company, or somebody who does more content-oriented tasks, can you shadow them? Can you ask if you can support them? So then you are able to learn in a real life situation and use some of what you're learning in the work that you're doing. And I would be willing to bet if you do have content colleagues that you may have at least one who actually wants to learn more about what you do. So could you support each other by, you know, helping each other with the work that you're doing and kind of checking each other's work so that you're both learning at the same time?
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 39:36 Yeah, you know, I know that for content people, a common complaint is that they feel shut out of the design process. And so if there is somebody who is doing content work, they may really love the idea of teaming up and working in a much more collaborative way where they get to be way more immersed in research and design and you get to be immersed in content and that would be a dream.
Jen Dionisio 39:57 Yeah.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 39:57 I am also wondering though if like, like I said before, if DD's org even has content, folks, because, like, if it's not a mature organization, they may well not even have a practice for that. And so, DD, if that's the case, I might even say like, congratulations, you're the writer now.
Jen Dionisio 40:14 Yay.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 40:15 Meaning as you do your job, what would happen if you really refocused your energy on the words? What would happen if you changed up your design process to start with writing first? You might find that simply by prioritizing writing in your existing design work, you are naturally able to incorporate more of that UX writing and contract design lens in your day to day and find out how does it actually feel. And do you find yourself wanting more of it? And you'll also just get better at it.
Jen Dionisio 40:45 Yeah. And like, I don't know about you, Sara, but I've only had a content strategy title once. And like, that doesn't mean I wasn't doing content strategy in my other roles or wasn't doing content design in my other roles. So as you're getting that exposure, DD, it might kind of show whether you do want to do this work or not and also kind of start to give you some portfolio materials, or case studies, or examples that you can share as you are networking, and, you know, looking for a new job. Another thing though, Sara, I want to come back to is, a lot of times when we're having these feelings, like not everyone has supportive managers, but I know a lot of people do.
And so I'm curious what it would be like to tell your manager that you have this sort of urge to explore content work more. If somebody came to me that was on my team and said that, I would imagine really trying to pair them with people who have that background, or try to find a project that gives them that opportunity to have some exposure. Your manager might be able to find you some professional development money so that you can take a course and give you the okay to spend work hours doing that work. Or maybe you know, there's a way to kind of build that desire into your annual goals because whether you make a formal shift or not, understanding content more is absolutely going to benefit you as a designer, researcher, and teammate.
So it's not far fetched to say like, "Hey, this is relevant to the work we're doing," because I assume your work has content in it. So I say that to say you might be surprised at the kind of support or opportunities that might be out there, especially in a low maturity organization where, you know, there's a little bit less of like an established practice, or process, or red tape that actually ends up drawing more severe lines between people's roles. And you know, okay, maybe at your job there actually are no opportunities, and they only want you to focus on doing the things that are in your job description. Fine. Their problem. So how might you take matters into your own hands? Maybe it's blocking an hour on your calendar twice a week to read or take webinars.
You may feel guilty doing that, because it's not officially sanctioned, but I feel really strongly that it's in everyone's interest for you to be reengaged and growing. And that includes you, but that includes your organization as well, especially if you're burning out. And you may start to think about leaving anyway.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 43:39 And the thing I'll add to this is that, DD, I would encourage you to go back to the answer you gave about what's calling you to content wor. What is exciting about it to you? What's making you feel like, "Oh, this is something I want to get into"? Because, look, the reality is that you might need to find some time outside of work, too, if you really want to make a switch. And that doesn't mean winding through a content design boot camp for 10 hours a week. That might be way more than you need to do. But you may need to make some time for some extracurricular stuff. And I know you said that's hard to do, and I want to respect whatever boundaries you have around that.
But I do think that it can be really valuable to tap into the things that have excited you, the things that have piqued your curiosity, the stuff that's made you go, "Oh, huh," because when we tap into that, that can actually give us new energy for learning, so it won't feel like a slog. It's more like, "Whoa, this is opening up so many new ideas in my head that I'd never thought about before," and you kind of get sucked in in the way you get sucked into a good book. And that's definitely been true for me where I've like, allowed my curiosity to lead, and it led me down a path where I was researching things and reading stuff and trying to put pieces together, and it was fun, and it felt joyful, and it didn't feel draining. And you have to decide how much of that is going to be possible for you.
But I do want to encourage you to tap into that part of you that got excited and let that lead a little bit because I think that might open up a little space to do this outside of work, even if it's not throwing yourself into, you know, late nighters trying to read about content design, because I don't think anybody needs to do that.
Jen Dionisio 45:19 That's great advice, Sara.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 45:21 So Jen, to wrap up, what about DD's last question: What do I want to be when I grow up?
Jen Dionisio 45:26 Oh, man, fuck if I know. I'm kidding. And I am guessing that DD was being tongue in cheek with that question. But alright, I'm going to answer it seriously. Because I used to have this thought all the time. I don't know about you. And now that I have changed careers a few times or kind of thought about changing a career, started down the path and realized like, oh, no, no thanks, I realized very much that there is no one thing. Whatever you decide is your ultimate goal and the kind of pinnacle of like, "I have figured out what I want to do with my life," that can still change. I love my work right now. I love being a coach. I love running workshops. I love writing.
But you know, who knows, like maybe I'll end up being a content strategist or designer again some day. Or like, maybe I'll go do something entirely different. 10 years ago, I could have never told you that this is where my path was gonna lead. And you don't know that either. So DD, if it helps, and I think Sara, you mentioned this word too, like thinking about what you're investigating as an exploration can take a lot of the pressure off of getting it right, because there is no wrong choice for you. And there is no deadline to figure out what you want to do when you grow up other than actually like retirement.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 46:52 Yeah, I really think it doesn't need to be what you want to be when you grow up. It can just be what you want to do next, or what you want to add to your mix. Because I think it's really important to remember you're not trading one skill for another, you're trying stuff on and seeing where it takes you, and you get to bring all of that existing skill set along with you. Good luck, DD.
Jen Dionisio 47:12 Good luck.
Jen Dionisio 47:16 Sara, do we have a final dilemma to unpack?
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 47:19 Oo, yes, we do. Okay, here's our last one. It's from someone who asked to be called Adam.
Adam 47:26 I’ve been a freelance designer, facilitator, and strategist since 2015. I’ve worked with all sorts of organizations & teams, from scrappy startups to global brands. This year I was contracting part-time with a podcast startup. Friendly team. Good ethos. Bootstrap mentality. About two months ago I got an email letting me know of the necessity to pause my contract for “some weeks or a month”. I was mere days away from going abroad on holiday with my family, so while I initially thought I’d be strategizing in different time zones, I figured a month wouldn’t be a huge deal, so I took it in stride. No communication was exchanged after this.
Mind you I’m a freelancing dad and one of my core values is remaining open, curious, and kind across all my relationships, be they personal or professional. We came back from holiday and I wrote to the team to share 3 things:
1. I’m back stateside
2. I’m aware of the still-active hibernating status of our contract
3. I’m available to jump into the ring when they’re ready
It’s been over two months since “the email” and I’ve effectively been ghosted. No closure. No termination. No communication. No empathy. Just crickets. Is it “me” or “them” that failed to communicate something? Being ghosted feels more inhuman -- as in, robotic-- than a professional working relationship... is this a wrong assumption? Why have we as a society defaulted to complete ambiguity and opting for no-human contact?
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 49:13 Oof, Adam, this is tough. And you know, as a tiny business owner, I will say I really relate. I have definitely had projects that were like 100% approved, moving forward, then disintegrate without a word. I've had clients stop replying to emails, I've had phase twos that never materialized. And you know, for a long time, I took that stuff really personally, like, what's wrong with me? What did I do wrong? Or maybe the worst one was like, why am I worth so little to these people that they won't even reply to me and tell me?
Jen Dionisio 49:45 Sara, it hurts my heart to think of you feeling that way. And, Sara, I feel like actually since I've been working with you, your perspective on that kind of situation has seemed so like healthy and not kinda self-blamey or shamey. So how did you start learning how to handle this kind of communication breakdown?
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 50:05 Well, I mean, I want to start by saying, I think it's really hard. I don't have it perfectly dialed. It's a practice. And I will say, also, Adam, you deserve better. You deserve to have someone who is at least honest with you and doesn't just leave you in silence. I think it sucks that this has become a pretty common practice, especially for big companies working with vendors. And I think also, given the power dynamics, it can be hard to feel like you have any recourse. And so I just want to first say like, Adam, if you feel like you are shouting into the void, I hear you. You're not wrong, this kind of silence, it's not great.
That said, what I've had to learn, and what I practice, but have not mastered, is the idea that it's probably not about me. In fact, what I have learned with enough experience of weird things happening and projects falling apart is that there are often two things at play that I can't know on this side but that are actually happening behind the scenes. The first one is that shit is going down at that company. You never really know exactly what's happening, but they may be going through a reorg or a budget cut. Their people are overwhelmed, stuff is up in the air. And what sometimes happens when that's happening within a company is that your contact is overwhelmed and stressed out, and they're putting it off.
So now you know, they're letting your email sit thinking things are going to settle down, and they're going to have a good answer for you. And then that week turns into two weeks turns into a month and it goes on and on. What sometimes happens is that your contact just doesn't have good information or they are also dealing with some pretty big gaps in their information, right? And they're just kind of letting it simmer. That's one. Second part: people are often wildly avoidant, when they're worried that they will disappoint or hurt someone.
Jen Dionisio 51:54 Oh, it me.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 51:55 Yeah. And so they do things like let your email sit. And suddenly, it's been there for a month. And they may even have felt guilty for the entire time that they've been staring at that email in their inbox. Jen, is that you too?
Jen Dionisio 52:11 I literally while you're talking, I'm thinking about somebody that I wanted to do a workshop with my team that I no longer work for. But because we were in the middle of such like a weird economic time, I just like couldn't get a real answer on whether if we'd ever have budget again, and yeah, so I'm still feeling guilty about that, Adam, if it helps to hear.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 52:32 See? And so this is this thing that happens, we feel bad or scared that we're going to disappoint somebody. And so if we don't have news, like things are still in a holding pattern, or if we have bad news, we'll just sit in that guilt and leave the other party in the dark. And I know on the other side, that sounds silly like, "Just fricking tell me. Just say it." But human brains can make us make some pretty knee jerk decisions when we're afraid. And giving people bad news triggers a lot of fear. I'm not saying that because I want to take people who don't communicate off the hook. I think this is a communication skill that people absolutely need to learn. I think they are harmful to other people by being so avoidant.
But I say this because I want you to know, Adam, that it is very rampant. And like it's so common, we literally run workshops on facing difficult conversations instead of avoiding them. And so I just want you to know, this is very common, and a good healthy thing to do is get some distance and say, "Okay, this lack of response is probably not about me. And then the other thing I'm going to encourage you to think about, Adam, is are you maybe being a little avoidant here, too?
Jen Dionisio 53:42 Oh.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 53:44 Because it sounds like, and maybe we don't have the full story, but it sounds like Adam sent one email after getting back from vacation, saying that he was ready when they were. But it doesn't sound like he's followed up to express his confusion, or disappointment, or to really check in more clearly on the status of the project and communicate his need for clarity like, "Hey, are we doing this or should I move on?" I'm curious what you think about that.
Jen Dionisio 54:12 Yeah, Sara, that's a really good call. And trust me, like I said, I have a tendency to avoid things myself. So there is no judgment here. But what is stopping you from requesting a phone call to discuss what your status is? Like, I think you could get a lot of clarity from it either, like confirmation that, yep, you're ghosted, they're not reaching out. For whatever reason, they have nothing to say and you're not going to get closure there. But also, there could be any number of other explanations that somebody would give you if asked. I mean, honestly, like, two months can go by in the blink of an eye, and for you because it's tied to your livelihood, that two months feels like forever, but the person on the other end is just kind of going through a blur of meetings week to week and might not even notice that so much time has passed.
I'm guessing that this thought has crossed your mind at some point. So something to ask yourself is like what's kept you from reaching out? Avoidance is usually, you know, a reaction to fear. So, what are you afraid of? Are you afraid that they'll ignore you and you'll feel even worse? Are you leading with your ego and not wanting to look desperate?
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 55:33 That one's me. That's what gets me.
Jen Dionisio 55:38 It's all coming out. Or Adam, do you worry that like you're bothering them, and if you ask for information that you might never get work again? Whatever you're telling yourself is the reason to stay quiet is probably not rooted in logic, and is just rooted in fear. So what if you could reframe reaching out? You know, you asked, "Why have we as a society defaulted to complete ambiguity and opting for no human contact?" Be the change, Adam. Model being brave and having the hard conversations. Clearing the air could actually strengthen your relationship with this client and open up more opportunities to work together again, someday.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 56:22 Yeah, you know, Jen, I think that's a really good point. Something that, Adam, I really want you to know is that sometimes the most powerful thing we can do to reconnect with another human and break through the awkwardness and the long gap of time, and the weird business BS is to just name what's going on, to name the fact that you're feeling a little awkward or uncomfortable reaching back out, that you are confused about the silence, but that you'd really like to get some closure or some clarity. There's something really powerful about being the one who is brave enough to just name it and to be like, "This is a little awkward, can we talk about it?"
When you do that, that can really trigger the other person to kind of like get back into human mode themselves, you know, to get out of that place where they're maybe just toeing the line for the business or where they're just in avoidance and to actually be like, "Oh, right, I'm in conversation with another human here. How do I want to be in that conversation?" The other thing I'll say, from my personal experience, is that sometimes you hear nothing, it's crickets. It's crickets, it's crickets. And then when you pop up, and you're like, "Hey, yeah, based on your silence, I assume we are not moving forward. So I'm gonna move on with other clients. Wishing you all the best. Thank you. Goodbye." People pop up out of the woodwork. And they're like, "No, don't go, don't go, we need you."
Jen Dionisio 57:44 God, I've heard this a lot.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 57:46 And it might not happen. I don't know if that'll happen for you. But I really do want you to know, Adam, that it can be very powerful to choose to reach out directly and honestly with an ask for some sort of clear answer. And to let them know that you are moving on if you don't hear back. And I think at this point, it's kind of like, what do you have to lose?
Jen Dionisio 58:08 So Adam, we would love to hear what happens after you hopefully reach out and get to the bottom of what's going on. And let us know how it turns out. We'd love to hear it.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 58:20 And Adam, I just want to reiterate, even if you don't get any answer back, because you might not, I think it's really healthy for you to put it out there directly. And to like Jen said, be that change that you want to see. I think it keeps you kind of operating from a place of hope, and not a place of despair. And I really wish that for all of our listeners today and all of our letter writers that they can find these ways to kind of say, "You know what? Yeah, this sucks. And it shouldn't be this way. And I don't want to just sink into disillusionment and cynicism here. I want to figure out my path out of that."
Jen Dionisio 58:55 Yeah, that's so true, Sara.
Jen Dionisio 59:04 That's it for this week's episode. Per My Last Email is a production of Active Voice. Check us out at https://www.activevoicehq.com/ and get all the past episodes show notes and full transcripts for per my last email at https://pmleshow.com/. This episode was produced by Emily Duncan. Our theme music is "(I'm a) Modern Woman" by Maria T. Buy her album at https://thisismariat.bandcamp.com/. Thank you to Val and Adam and Disillusioned Designer for submitting their stories to today's show. And thank you all for listening. If you've got to work dilemma eating away, you send that over to us, head to https://pmleshow.com/ to submit your story.